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Den rätta formulan
Dear All.
The new Formula rules of maximum width 125 cm are being sent to ISAF for
verification. There are people who thinks this is too radical, and we do in this letter try to explain how we see it.Formula considerations and more.
Dear All.
We have been following the different postings on the Formula rules and would like
to share facts and view points in order to make sure that we continue in the right direction that we have staked out.Growth
An essential aspect in this discussion is the way wider boards are key to grow the sport .
Today only 1.5% of those trying windsurfing steps on a board for a second time,,
With the acceptance of wide boards we can easily change that to 10% as they will succeed easily and we instantly have
7 times more people stepping on board second time.Potential
We have contrary to most others been riding real wide boards for 3 years and have discovered their simplicity and potential.
We also do see that our widest board, the Start at 100 cm and the GO , has become best sellers , best sellers amongst recreational and even entry level sailors. These 2 models alone today stands for over 5 % of the World’s total turn over of windsurfing boards, proving its wide acceptance of those who actually have a voice in what’s good for recreational sailors, namely the recreational sailors themselves.
Clearly those who wish to participate in the F.W. class wishes to use boards that can plane in lighter winds yet go faster in higher winds. The Formula worlds in Thailand showed great racing in light winds and the way the development is going now we will in the short future be able to race in 4 knots. This is only a start, and indicates the huge potential the sport of Windsurfing now has opening up for thousands of new venues , almost guarantee that events will be held and that most times we go to the beach, we will be able to plane.
This season is an transition season all together and from Nov 2001 there are firm rules in place that we at the BOOT meeting believed would last until 2008.Fin length and travelling.
For the very most of racing venues a 100 cm fin is as usable as 70 cm deep fin. We will also take advantage of the fin adjustment system that Stephan Van den Berg used already back in 1985. This eliminates launching problems .
When we in 1998 introduced the Go board with a 54 cm fins we had critical comments at the trade shows
concerning this ” enormous ”depth. Within 3 months had a high lift low aspect ratio fin at 33 cm available for those who wished to sail in shallow waters. The same will apply for the new wider boards like the 100 cm Start with a 40 cm wide style fin.
These low aspect ratio fins also jibes better for recreational sailors and are very easy to sail in high winds.We have through out the last 20 years been travelling with up to 350 kg of equipment each to PWA races , and now finally have only
1 boards and 3 rigs to check in. When we several times have been travelling through airports that have not had e ray machine dimensions for even 85 cm boards, we have simply used the hand x ray scanner without any question asked .World cup influence versus I.W.A. / F.W./ I.F.C.A. development .
PWA World cup equipment used until date has been showing people that we need high winds to compete,
and gives most location and potential windsurfers little inspiration.
Clearly the new ideas to grow windsurfing to the masses has not come from the world cup ,
but in the Production board class like IFCA and F.W.
Our Formula boards ( race scene) and GO boards ( recreational) has had no development influence from current the PWA development.
When we presented the finished Formula Concept our PWA racers did not even want to try the boards, before they were proven to win
in IFCA events. We developed these boards with Jim Drake and recreational windsurfing friends on a beach in Thailand.Global windsurfing.
I hope that we start to see where this sport needs to go to get more mainstream and not forget that
the less restrictions we have, the further we can continue the current great development which we have
seen in the ultra wide board revolution.
Some of us may be based on Maui where there are not ideal conditions for
development of recreational and F.W. equipment, but please be aware that Maui does not represent the conditions
that 95% of the world can offer, which is what we need to open up for.Let’s try do the right thing this time around.
Svein Rasmussen.
Saxxat från Starboards Forum
Dear Ian, Tor, Svein and Forum folkTo what degree do you think the recent proliferation of Formula race
type boards (from the new boards shown at the Boot in Dusseldorf, to the
domination of most Forums) apply to the mass windsurfing market???Im talking about ”recreational” sailing (is this becoming a rude word??!!)
i.e. not racing but the thing that 99% of all sailors do (and Id guess
what generates 99% of all the revenue for board manufacturers……??)This is how I see Formula – but maybe im wrong:
The concept of Formula – one board and three rigs is a great compromise
for racing and theoretically allows many many people to race on
fairly equal playing field (which seems like a great idea!)
Correct?So – With this is mind, the general premise (it seems to me) is that if
you can only have one board – you have to go super wide because
when its very light you can still sail and win – but when its strong,
you can still manage to get round the course (as opposed to registering
say a 100 litre slalom board that would be great in force5 but die
in any less) i.e. it’s a compromise fuelled by the lowest
common denominator i.e. very light winds??If this is the case – and we assume that most (99%) people sail to enjoy
the sport, rather than to ”manage” to get round a course when they
could be on something smaller – how do you think formula applies to
the major market – where people do often have perhaps 2 or 3 boards
and several sails???Perhaps as a specialist very light wind piece of equipment to
complement a 100 litre freeride and 80 litre wave/convertible??
And if so – how well does it fill this role – how fun is it to
say broad / gybe etc??Id be interested in your opinions as this issue doesn’t seem to
have been addressed much in all the excitement (and maybe just a
tad of hype?) to go superwide, boxy rails, flappers, 80cm fins etc.And please don’t get me wrong – im not a nostalgic, short-sighted
sailor – im all for any developments that allow me to get out
enjoying sailing (not managing to get round a course) i.e.
”freeriding as much as possible – Im just wandering how these
developments may apply (realistically) to me and the general market.P.S
Great site and Forum – keep up the good work!Apologies for the long dribble!
Thanks,
SteSte ()
2
2/7/2001 10:31:47 AM
Hello Ste,
Wonderful question you’ve asked. I would expect there are many people
who are asking the same question.
Here in the United States (the only area I have any experience with)
we have many areas that experience very light <12 knot winds the majority
of the time. In these areas, the Formula 155 last year, and now the
Formula 175 this year are selling out AS RECREATIONAL BOARDS, faster than
the distributor can get them in the warehouse.
Why is this?
Because in these lighter windspeed areas, people can go out and be
fully planing and traveling nearly 2 X windspeed, in as little as 8 knots
of wind with a 10.0-11.0 m2 sail. They can sail upwind nearly as high as
a good longboard, but at twice the longboards speed, as long as there’s
enough wind to get the wide Formula style board planing.
For heavier sailors, (i.e. over 180 lbs./81 kg.) there was no possible
way for them to plane in less than 12-14 knots on the narrower boards.
Now these ”big guys”, are out there ripping around in as little as
8-9 knots, having the time of their lives, and spending 2-3 times more
”quality” time on the water.
So the answer to your question on the applicability of these boards to
the recreational sailor would be ”you’ve just got to try this technology
to really experience for yourself how much fun these boards are, even
in very lite winds. If the wind is < 8 knots, no, these boards are not
much fun, unless you are a lighter sailor capable of handling a very
large sail.
But what you and many others may be missing with the latest generation
of Formula boards is the fact that in order to be raced in 8 knots to
20 knots + the designers have had to find ways to make these boards
much more ”rangy” (good early planing performance, but good control
in 2-2.5 time more windspeed). So now we have boards that are very
”user friendly” at 8 knots (where the fun really begins for larger
sailors) to more than 20 knots. A few years ago we needed 2 or maybe
3 boards to cover this range. Now we only need one. It’s much faster
at 8 knots, and still faster and better upwind at 20 knots.
It takes some tuning, and technique adjustment to really wring the
the most from these boards, but they are very forgiving, and easier to
sail throughout this huge wind range.
Your comments about boxy rails, 80 cm fins etc. inidcate that you
really haven’t taken a look at the latest Starboard Formula’s.
The same design features that have made these boards controllable
on the race course around the bouys in 20 knots, have made them
easier to control, faster, and more fun for the recreational sailor.
We do not have ”boxy” rails anymore, we have ”beveled” rails, which
improve high speed control, make the boards jibe much more easily,
and don’t seem to hurt the early planing capability.
As for the huge fins, it’s the width of the board that makes these
fins work. The footstraps have to be offset enough so the sailor
can control the fin. But 80 cm fins are not the norm on the Formula
boards, at least not yet. Maybe in a year or two, when the boards get
wide enough to handle fins with that span, but the Formula Worlds were
won on fins in the 63-70 cm range, in very lite winds (8-14 knots as
I recall).
Can these boards be fun to jibe, or easier for the recreational sailor
to learn carve jibes on? I say YES! If a recreational sailor doesn’t
have their carve jibes working yet, then they will develop the techniques
required to jibe 85-95 cm wide Formula boards more quickly if for no
other reason than these boards plane on very flat water, and very high
speeds, so carving a fully planing jibe can now happen in 10 knots
or virtually chop free water. Much easier than 15 knots, and knee high
chop.
I can only say that you need to try this technology. It may not be for
everyone, but the sailors in the lite air regions of the USA are buying
these boards faster than they can be made, and finding that they only
need 2 boards, for 8 knots-30 knots +. The Formula for 8-20+, and a
small B&J/Freestyle/Freeride 85-100 liter high wind board for 20+ to 30+.
Hope this addresses your question adequately,
Regards, RogerRoger USA 7011 (sailquik@mindspring.com)
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2/7/2001 11:51:39 AM
Roger,
What sail sizes & make would you recommend for Formula 175 Dram for recreational sailing on Great Lakes. I am 195 lbs and interested in 7 20knts range.
I totally agree with your take on the need for light wind equipment for the ’rest of us’ people who have a job, a wife and kids; but still want to sail when time permits, not when the wind permits.
Joe
Joe (looby@tcc.on.ca)4
2/7/2001 12:38:20 PM
Hello Joe,
I’d suggest large freeride sails like the Sailworks Retro.
Currently 9.5 is as large as they make. If you really want
to get down to the absolute planing threshold for your weight,
something larger would be better. For a larger freeride, I’d
check out the new Windwing Quantum which goes to 11.0 meters,
is camless, and should have similar power and performance to
the Retro. Another option would be the Sailworks XT2 in a
10.7 m2. I have one of these, and I can plane before almost
anyone on the 2000 Formula 155. I’m eager to try the 10.7 m2
XT2 and the 11.0 Quantum on the Formula 175.
As it said, I was somewhat shocked last weekend at how early
I was planing on the Formula 175, with only an 8.5 m2 XT2 which
I normally don’t even rig until the windspeeds are above 12 knots.
I’m about 30 lbs. lighter than you are, but the F175 was designed
for big guys, your size and larger.
But really, any 9.0 or greater Race/Freeride/Freeride Camless sail
will serve you well. I just prefer the Retro due to it’s low end
power and tuneability. I’m sure the other sailmakers are catching
up with the Sailworks Retro design’s, but I haven’t sailed any of
them yet.
After about 13-14 knots, you might want something a little smaller,
say an 8.0 or 7.5 Retro. These wide boards need some power, and the
modern sails can deliver it over quite a wide range. I don’t think
you’d find a good balance with smaller than a 7.5 on the F175, even
if you dropped the fin size.
This is another aspect of these boards that hasn’t been adequately
explained. If you are racing, then a full quiver of fins makes sense,
but for recreational sailing, maybe 2 fins is all you really need,
and the stock Curtis CR-16B 65 cm that comes with the F175 will cover
you from 8 knots to 20 knots pretty well.
Unlike traditional narrower boards, you can’t just start downsizing
the fin, unless you are willing to move the footstraps inboard.
There’s a fairly definite geometric relationship between footstrap
offset and fin span. Too small a fin, and the board won’t stay slightly
up on the lee rail the way it needs too, for both good speed and upwind
potential. I found this out the hard way when trying to find weed fins
that would work in the F155. Now I have some, but there are only a
few of them that work well in these boards. I should have some more
weed fins to test in the next couple of weeks.
So, running out an buying a bunch of fins, in 2 cm increments, is pretty
much unneccesary for boards like the F175 & F155 when used for recreational
sailing. There are a number of different fin designs that work well, and
the span is not the only thing that needs to be considered. You must
balance fin span, chord width, and chord depth. I found the 70 cm
Tekknosport Crosswind hts to be really nice in lighter winds, but it’s
a very high aspect ratio, even when compared to the CR-16b, plus it has
a wide at the top, very narrow at the bottom foil depth and
very thin chord thickness.
I really like the way you’ve described the ”essence” of recreational use
of these boards:
”the need for light wind equipment for the ’rest of us’ people who have
a job, a wife and kids; but still want to sail when time permits, not
when the wind permits.”Nicely put! A near perfect description for those of us who live
and work in the ”real world”. Gotta get our ”wind fix” when we can,
which is not necessarily when the wind blows. The Formulas will
empower you to get a wind fix way more often, and that’s got to be
good for the soul, right? 🙂Hope this helps,
RogerRoger USA 7011 (sailquik@mindspring.com)
5
2/7/2001 4:24:17 PM
RogerThanks for the comprehensive responses!!
I think – as you suggest – the best thing for me to do would be to go and try one for myself! Are StarBoard going to do any demo days in the UK??
You know there really seems to be a lot of confusion about this specific subject……or maybe its just me, eh??!!
Most Forum discussions talk about Formula only in the context of racing. I do appreciate that the thrust of formula development is from the racing – and so its only natural that this is where the bias lies – but in doing so it does not lend itself to application to the market at large. I think that’s half the issue here – perception. If you only hear talk of the Formula within the minutia of racing – then it does marginalise the board from more general users. Perhaps this is also because its still “early days” and the trickle down effect hasn’t reached the recreational sailor yet. Anyway – Feedback like yours will certainly do well to redress this.
Maybe the UK is lagging behind on this – but the feedback I have got from retailers is that these boards are NOT good for general sailing…..ie flying along broad reaches and screaming into gybes, cos they are specifically aimed at sailing close upwind to the first gybe mark and not about the kind of sailing most people do. One even told me that if you sail them in anything other than upwind/downwind they will actually tip over because of excessive lateral force generated from the width and fin??!! You ever experienced anything like this??
From what you say – the Formula is the answer im looking for. I do not race but would consider myself as a good standard, and would really relish the idea of sailing fast in really light winds – with the proviso’s that it doesn’t feel like sailing a door, nor is solely focused on flying to the upwind mark with no consideration of feel or excitement……I mean that’s what we do it for, right??
Jeez – there must be a hell of a lot of people out there that fit into this category (and far more than racers) that the Formula could be aimed at perfectly – but this message really somehow isn’t getting through. For example – I have read zero tests on the Formula in the UK mags or any printed comment on the board at all – except its winning all the races of course!!
Or maybe my comments are off the mark, because the formula is a dedicated race board aimed at winning races – but that may also be used in a recreational manner – kinda as a by product and not a priority??
It just seems to me that if the board has such great utility to windsurfing at large, the story is not getting out there!
So come on Starboard, get the Formula story sorted and sell me something!! (yuk yuk)
😉
Thanks again,
SteSte ()
6
2/7/2001 5:41:36 PM
Guys, great discussion, and exceptionally ”topical” suggestion, Ste !There are some (usually highly profiled) areas of the windsurf world where the real benefits of Formula Technology (ie ; OUTSIDE racing) have already been recognised, but in general it seems fair to say that the ”rest of the world” is just awakening…
For racing, FW has been (and will be..) a fantastic solution to dwindling racing interest, but the greatest FW spinoff has to the ”accessibility” to fun sailing that the FW equipment can provide to ANYONE !
Formula (and derivitive style) equipment is for EVERYBODY who wants to sail where access to consistant winds above 20kts is limited.
Yes, it may mean a ”new” board, yes it may require a new rig (as most rec sailors probably have older sails only up to 6.5 to 8.0 max..), but look what you can achieve ; for some time now, we’ve worked on a ”theoretical” minimum quiver , just as an exercise…
Certainly, we are NOT short on boards and rigs of every size and shape, but (for fun..) we wanted to see how far we could push it for realistic recreational performance with minimum gear…
Our results (for 85/90kg rider) are :
2 Boards F155 and C99 (GO can substitute F155 if desired..)
8.8m Race /freerace, 520 mast/ Boom
5.5m Freeride/ 430 mast/boom
4.2m Wave / uses mast and boom as 5.5m
A modest range of fins to suit…Our 88 kg ”test” rider/s can sail 6 knots to 60 (six zero).. realistically.
At 6 knots, he is struggling, but can plane. At 60 he is struggling, but can sail. Between both extremes, he is always well inside a ”fun” zone..
## Of course, the numbers can easily be fine tuned for lighter riders,
principle remains very much the same…F155/8.8m from zero to 15kts (can easily sustain up to 20kts)
C99 with 5.5m from 15 to 25 kts(can sustain to 30kts..)
C99 with 4.2m from 25/30 to meltdown..
Flat water thru to fun surf…It works, very well. And we are ”competive” with any others out there..
This is proven, satisfying and safe recreational sailing…it does NOT require ”survival” techniques, nor is it unfairly taxing the range of the equipment. (or rider…)
It’s taking what we’ve got (and anyone can get) and getting the most from the least, WITHOUT undue compromise…(Hi Alex !!)It does rely on the extended tuning range and draft stability of very good modern(!!) sails, and it does rely more than average on fin tuning.
What it confirms is that the new style (FW) gear opens up a whole new perspective on fun sailing in light to medium conditions, all the way thru to the top, with just a modest investment, but in the right gear !!
We’d welcome any feedback or comments on improving further or minimum MAXI quiver !! How we spread the news is another question.
Cheers, Ian Fox / StarBoard Team
(aus001@ianfox.com) -
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som om man skulle orka läsa allt det….!!!????
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