kite snack med Tony Logooz

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[kitelife]

Tony Logosz on Designing Kites

How did you get into designing kites?

In the second year of Slingshot when we were still pretty small, we (Jeff , Chris, Breff and I) each had a lot on our plates…each one of us wore a lot of hat’s. I was R&D for bars lines, boards and kites. At the time we had Bill Hanson working on the Stealth Kite. It was the first true Hell Kite on the market. I worked with Bill on it for a year , You can learn a lot from a really bad kite. I learned everything that I don’t want a kite to do pretty much that year. It was the true school of hard knocks! At the time I was really into the Foil kites. But Jeff and Chris wanted something water relaunchable and Bill wanted nothing to do with an inflatable kite, so It was back on my plate. I was chewing for a while, and now it’s all I work on. John Doyle does all of the boards, and is doing a great job, so I can focus on other kites.

When you set out to design your kites, what are your goals, (in terms of flight characteristics)?

That’s changing all of the time and it comes from the teams input. The first Fuel was designed to have constant power and very slow turning because the team did not want to have to pay attention to the kite in the air when they were trying to take their feet off the board. Now that they are getting to be better kite flyers they have made the jump to really fast and turny kites. I like the direction we are going (as far as the riding.) Landing with the kites low in the power with speed is hardcore. The riding should always dictate the kites design performance.

How do you achieve these goals, (in terms of technical aspects, i.e. aspect ratio, wingtip length) Technical aspects?

Ok this is the side of the sport that sucks. Let me put on the lab coat and pocket protector. OK let’s Nerd out! Where should we start? Laws of motion ? Acceration of mass and force? Action and reaction? Turbulent flow? Line Drag? Gliding? Diving? (Terminal Velocity) Climbing? Air Density? Kite size? Velocity? Angle of attack and trim? Aerofoil section lift? Lift Coefficients? The origin of lift? Drag ratio? The lift to drag ratio? Profile Flare? The boundary layer? Vortex induced drag? And of coarse the most important one ASPECT RATIO the mother of all. So with that in mind I achieve most of my designs with a medium aspect ratio and wingtip ratio of 25% to 38 % of the cord depending on the size to keep the turn rates the same. This seem to be a good platform for good Lift to Drag ratios and it is still water-relaunchable.

Uh, ok. Can you shed some light on projected versus flat area of a kite? How much of the kite’s area is being utilized?

What’s with these questions? This all started when comparing 5.0 foil to a 5.0 inflatable three or four years ago…does anybody really care anymore? It all depends on how it was designed. I can make two identical 13.0 kites with the same “aspect ratio” plan form and aerofoil and set the angle of attack different on each of them. One would work in 12 Knots max; the second one working in 35 knots. The second kite in 35 knots would have no low end power and would take 25+ knots to power up. Get my point? Now throw in all the other brands and try to make sense of size verses power and you have a huge can of worms!

How did you acheive these goals, (in terms of technical aspects, i.e. aspect ratio, wingtip length)

You’re killing me! Ok, I will answer this one. I use the standard method by dividing the span by the mean cord or in case where the mean cord is hard to determine by dividing the square of the span by the total area. Then I use a super computer to convert them to low, med & high. Our’s can convert to super high if we want.

What is involved in the process of designing a kite? Do you use wind tunnel tests and computer simulations, or is it all real world testing?

I do all of my modeling in CAD (Computer Aided Design) first. Then I get the Aspect ratio from the team. Jeff Tobias or Ben Wilson usually steal them. So I make them take them back. Then after rebooting my computer a few hundred times it spits out a new kite. It’s really cool. After funding for the Supercollider was cut by the Department of Defense, we got a real good deal on renting out the facility for testing. So, Kor and I go to this wind tunnel donut in the ground and start testing. After going through hundreds of prototypes, we then go to the team rider’s houses and steal back our good kites and refine from there. It’s very much a collaborative effort.

Do you look for inspiration from other industries and products to aid in the design of your kites?

Of course! Nature as well. Do you know that there is nothing in nature that looks like an Inflatable kite? Hmmmm…

What safety systems have you incorporated into your kites?

Isn’t that like asking a flight attendant what safety systems come with the airplane? We have the Sure Fire Wrist release and a shackle release on the chicken loop (trim loop for you Tech heads), a color coded male & female pigtail set for the attachment, and all sizes are water re-launchable.

Do you see the sport becoming safer? How?

NO. The product will become safer but human nature will not.

What is the next step in kite design? How do you envision the sport changing in the future?

Lighter Faster Stronger & hopefully cheaper!! Snow will be bigger than water and more like motocross where coming up short will make you reconsider that 100-foot gap. And water will go to a new level as well on the pro side.

[kitelife]

John Doyle on Life and Boards

Questions by Access Kiteboarding Magazine, Belgium

1. What was your fist kiting experience like?
About three years ago a lot of my friends in the gorge were getting into kiting, so I guess it was
pier pressure that got me started, (I was still heavy into windsurfing for the last 20 years). I did
a body drag, and was hooked on the power with minimal wind. I saw kite boarding as a mutation of
Windsurfing.

2. When did you get into shaping boards?
In 1985 I was heavy into windsurfing, and started shaping boards for myself and
Friends and it turned into a business

3. Your board shapes are pretty unique, what is or was your specific drive behind that?
My biggest influence was windsurfing, but I feed off of a lot of my sporting experiences, (surfing,
waterskiing, wakeboarding, skateboard, snow skiing, snowboarding, kayaking, mountain biking,
and motocross racing). I didn’t know what I was doing when I started building kite boards, but I
knew that the boards that were being produced then were not right.

4. Are you working on something new at the moment?
I am always working on something new, and as much as I would like to talk about it I have gag
orders.

5. Who are the shapers that you respect? And why?
Most of the shapers out there I respect, some stand out like Jimmy Lewis, he seems to get into
the latest thing, Shaun Ordonez on Maui, he has evolved from windsurf shaping and has a good
attitude, and Tony Logosz for having vision way ahead of most. He is now Slingshots kite designer
(I enjoy working with him). John Amnasten on Oahu is on the move with shapes and he is a super
rider. There are a lot more shapers from the surfing and windsurfing world that I respect, too many
to mention.

6. Do you have any ideas about how the kiteboard shapes are going to evolve in the future?
I have lots of ideas, but some don’t pan out. I think dedicated boot boards will continue to die.
And twins will dominate, and old school directionals are almost dead. But the future of directionals
will be a mix of the directionals and twins in one (like slingshots morph surf) that you can ride any
way you want (forward fakey, and toe side and you never have to jib it, just like today’s
snowboards).

7. Who are the guys or girls in kite boarding that inspire or inspired you?
Mark Doyle (my son) for his ability to adapt to equipment, new moves, and contest real quick,
Adam Koch for
his ultra smooth big airs and light touchdowns, Jeff Tobias for his never say die attitude, (I watched
him hang on to a 12m one time when a squall came by, it was gusting to 80mph, tea bagging him
40’ he finally let go after a half mile). Ben Wilson for his laid back style (powerful and smooth) and
He likes huge margaritas). Will James cause he likes to go bigger than any body. Kore Harrison in
the gorge, he is the epitome of a sole kiter, I love kiting with him, (he doesn’t chase cameras,
he rips, and just loves the sport) There are a lot more, too many to go on.

8. I presume Adam Koch and your son are amongst them.
First about Adam, how is the relationship between the two of you?
Very good, we are the best of friends. When ever we are in the same part of the world we kite
together. He works for Naish and I work for Slingshot, but it is not about who we work for it is
about friendships and have fun. We have been working and kiting together since we both
started.

9. What are his strengths and weaknesses?
I think his strongest strength is his ability to influence change. When he and I started we both
began on directionals. That was when not being a wakeboot guy was uncool, but he stuck to
his guns and made people change their minds on different kite disciplines. When he went to Maui
he continued to influence (he helped put me on the map in the kiteboard shaping world). He made
people Think it was cool to use foot straps on twins instead of boots. As with weaknesses, we all
have Those, you would have to ask him about his

10. Can you tell us a little about your relationship with your son?
We have been doing sports together since he was about 8 years old. Every thing I got into, he
had to do, I can’t think of a sport that I did that he did not do. Neither of use was in to the high
school team sports thing. I never pushed him in the least to go in a direction I still don’t. (that
almost never works, support your kids, don’t groom them). I build him boards when he needs
them but he mostly rides production boards,They are just as good.

11. Do you think he’s got the potential to go really big in the world tour? What are his strengths and weaknesses?
Sure he does, he has Ice water in his veins at contest. He may not be the best rider at a contest.
But while other people are getting rattled he just plugs away to the end and often wins. I don’t
know if he really cares about the contest, he is mostly a free rider. He goes places and ride the
best spots and does not chase cameras and video producers. That is probably his weakness as
far as the business of professional kite boarding. You must get in the magazine and videos (he is
not in many). He is only 19 so he can definitely become the best if he wants to. But it is not very
important as long as he enjoys it. I see too many pros in sports start to hate the sport in search of
becoming the best.

12. Do you have other offspring?
Nope.

13. What is your own kiteboarding level like?
Well I am 46 and the kids respect me.

14. What do you see as a challenge in your life and in the sport?
To be a leader, not a follower.

15. Can you describe your worst board or tour experience?
When the Rufus devil winds come out in the gorge.

16. And you’re best?
Some of my best kiting has been in south Texas on the coast in the waves.

17. What is your limit as to what you would never do in the sport?
Jump rock jetties.

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18. What are the other hobbies (and fetishes) that occupy you’re mind when
not boarding and shaping?
Well beside my sports, I am kind of a nerd. In my past I have been into model rail roading,
Radio controlled airplanes and cars, and tried to keep on computers.

19. Someone told me that you’re a little eccentric. Is that true? If so, how does it show?
Probably, I am never happy with how things work; I am always trying to redesign everything
Including my own designs.

20. What makes life worth living for you?
Doing what I am doing.

21. What kind of woman do you like?
Nice ones (My wife will say right answer)

22. What kind of humor do you like?
Austin powers or any other spoof movies.

23. What is your life philosophy if you have any?
Do what makes you happy (including your job)
Don’t watch the news too much.

24. Are there any thing in you’re life that you regretted doing or not doing?
Sure, but you learn from them and go on.

25. What are the most annoying or boring questions people can ask you?
No questions are annoying from people, unless I am trying to get to the water.

26. What are the thing that can really nerve or irritate you in this life?
People that kill in the name of religion.

27. How do you like people to treat you?
With respect, and that’s the way I treat them.

28. What characteristics do you like in people?
Positive enthusiastic attitudes. And people that excel at there chosen discipline.

29. What are your personal strengths? And weaknesses?
My ability to build and design things. My weakness is I obsess over things.

30. Can you name a few well known people (in any field you like) that you admire or have admired? and why?
Robby Naish in windsurfing. Jeremy McGrath in supercross. John Tomak in mountain biking.
Jerry Lopez in surfing, Tony Hawk in skate boarding. Richard Petty in NASCAR.
I am in aw of people that become the best at something, and yet remain humble.

31. If you’ve had to compare yourself to an animal or any other force of nature?
What would that be and why?
An eagle, because no matter what sport I am doing I love to catch air and stay up there
And sore as long as possible.

32. What are the things that in this life you would like to accomplish?
I am always in search of the Holy Grail; I hope I never find it.

33. Is there anything else you’d like to share with me us and the readers?
Be kind to the windsurfers that have not mutated yet.

The end. That was it. Thank you for taking your time and I hope to hear from you
soon.